topic Re: A77 flash overexposure in Alpha & NEX interchangeable lens cameras

A77 flash overexposure

mikeyp2000 — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:38:16 GMT

I was wondering if Sony have any updates for us on a77 flash overexposure issues. A quick visit to dpreview Sony forums will find many many a77 users have similar problems.

To get a decent flash exposure, flash exposure compensation needs to be set to -.7 to -1.0. This is true for the built in flash or any Sony external flash, either for direct or bounced.

My old a700 and a55 used to expose perfectly with flash exposure compensation set to 0.

Outdoors using the hvl-f58 or f-42 flash to fill in shadows on bright sunny days, I now need to use -2.3 to -2.7 flash exposure compensation where the a700 and a55 would need -1.7 to -2 for a natural fill flash.

So the problem for lots of people seems to be that they can get exposures that seem ok but the flash settings required are a bit unnatural, as if the a77 flash exposure scale is -.7 to -1 out of sync with people's expectations.

Is there any knowledge in Sony about this?

Re: A77 flash overexposure

blaireau_photo — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 22:55:47 GMT

Hi mikeyp2000

I am discussing this with a contact of mine and I will let you know their thoughts (just double checking a couple of things first).

Thanks,

Simon

Re: A77 flash overexposure

blaireau_photo — Sun, 03 Jun 2012 21:10:18 GMT

Hello again

As far as I am aware, this issue with the flash is something that has been advertised as 'rectified' by a previous firmware update so please could you confirm if you have installed the latest version from here (Version 1.5):

http://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/product/SLT-A77/updates

If you already have this installed, I will need to highlight this to customer support within Sony to see why the firmware update hasn't solved this.

Thanks,

Simon

Re: A77 flash overexposure

mikeyp2000 — Sun, 03 Jun 2012 21:57:33 GMT

Simon,

That was quick!

I am indeed running v1.05 (I assumed you made a little typo stating 1.5 above 🙂 )

When I installed the update, the List of Improvements made no specific mention of flash exposure but does mention an intriguing 'other improvements' as the final point. Was flash exposure one of the 'other improvements'? I'm also curious to know what else may have been improved.

Just for reference, here are two threads from Gary Friedman on the dpreview forums. In case you haven't heard of him, he is and independent and well respected Sony photographer, selling his own guides to various Sony Cameras and offering touring seminars on the Sony flash system.

Thread 1: Before sending off for repair

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=39679384

Thread 2: After camera back from repair (no fault found!!!!)

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1037&thread=41341717

Cheers,

Michael

Re: A77 flash overexposure

mikeyp2000 — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:24:31 GMT

Hi,

I was wondering if there is any news on this?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: A77 flash overexposure

blaireau_photo — Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:35:47 GMT

Hello again

Apologies for not getting back in touch sooner - I have been trying to verify some information about whether this is something that should have been rectified by the last firmware update - further apologies for the slight typo

I have now highlighted this thread to technical support at Sony to see if this is definitely something that should have been fixed in the update and if this is indeed the case, I can advise further.

Thanks,

Simon

Re: A77 flash overexposure

stchurc49 — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 12:08:49 GMT

Hello my A77 (firmware 1.0.5) is suffering from chronic overexposure too.

I have tried using with both my Sony F42 and Minolta 5600 HS(D) but the exposure is very erratic. I've used with ADI and Pre-flash but the flash is far too unreliable exposing anywhere between +0.5 - +2.

I have no problems when using them on my A700 or my Minolta film bodies.

It's got to the point where I'm using the A77 as an available light only camera and my A700 if flash is required. I'm not exactly happy about this considering the sum I spent on my A77.

Regards

Steve

A77 flash overexposure

cmosse — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:47:31 GMT

Dear Michael

regarding flash exposure of A65/A77 it took me a while to find out how the camera works and what settings will suit better for certain shooting conditions.

Generally I found out that the flash indeed is set to a somewhat higher level compared what I was used from A55 or even the old Minolta 7D.

One clue to understanding is the way the A65/A77 try to balance ambient/natural light with the flash light. It

seems that the camera and its exposure algorithms are setup up to gain more of the ambient light, so that

parts of the scene which are not reached by the flash are not underexposed, which could happen with A55. In this regard I have found flash exposure of A65/A77 indoors (with poor lighting) better most of the times than on previous models.

When using A65/A77 as pure fill in flash outdoors (brighten up shadows) it seems however that the new algorithm produces images with less balanced results, in fact the parts which are lit up by the flash seem to be overexposed and I too end up using flash compensation.

On close inspection of the images however I found out that most of the images which seems too bright are not overexposed in a technical aspect (burned out highlights which can not be recovered) but just very very bright. Too bright however to result in a natural looking fill flash image. So what I do now is to make sure I use the following settings for outdoor fill flash work:

- set ISO to low values, avoid high settings (please note that there can be situations where the flash output

already has reached its lowest possible setting and therefore flash overexposure will happen. E.g. when using F2, ISO1600 and 2m distance required GN would be 1 - which is not available)

- enable High Speed flash (custom setting of the flash)

- use flash exposure compensation

- in addition to this basic settings I also found out that using a flash diffuser will give me best results (set

metering to TTL instead of ADI)

I have attached a comparison of a basic setup:

from left to right (A65 using HVL-F58 as external flash, P-mode, ISO 200):

0 flash compensation, -1 flash comepnsation, -0.7 flash compensation + diffuser

For my taste the one with the diffuser looks best, other might even prefer the "paparazzi" style harsh flash of the standard setting.

For critical exposure I always use RAW format as it gives the opportunity to adjust exposure to a large degree in post processing. The RAW files from Sony contain enough headroom to enable recover of highlights even from flash images which seem to be overexposed.

I hope this hints are helpful for you.

Message was edited by: cmosse

Re: A77 flash overexposure

blaireau_photo — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:54:26 GMT

Hello again

Thanks for confirming also that you are definitely running the latest firmware 1.05 from here:

http://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/product/SLT-A77V/downloads/FW_A77_V105_WIN

Many thanks also to cmosse for the comprehensive hints and tips - please let us all know how you get on.

Simon

Re: A77 flash overexposure

mikeyp2000 — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:17:21 GMT

Cmosse, thanks for your ideas. It seems that what you are suggesting are a series of workarounds for a problem that should really be fixed. Your sample at 0 flash compensation shows clear overexposure so you have the same problem.

I was mostly aware of your tips but it is nice to see them all gathered in one place.

My point is just that the scale needs to be redesigned. At the moment the flash is only useable from -3 to 0 with 0 being around a stop too much flash (perhaps useful for some creative effects). I cannot dream up a single use for flash set between +1 and +3.

I can confirm I am running v1.05.

Simon - I received an email from Sony Support about this a day or two ago. Did you lend a little helping hand here?

Cheers

Re: A77 flash overexposure

dahanse66 — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 04:51:41 GMT

Hi Mike,

Any News? World be very interesting if there is a solution. I Share the same Problem...

Thanks and Nice Day!

Daniel

Re: A77 flash overexposure

blaireau_photo — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:36:25 GMT

Hello again everyone

I have just had some further feedback from customer support at Sony relating to outdoor flash use and I wanted to summarise this here.

Set ISO to low values, avoid high settings (please note that there can be situations where the flash output already has reached its lowest possible setting and therefore flash overexposure will happen. E.g. when using F2, ISO1600 and 2m distance required GN would be 1 - which is not available).

Enable High Speed flash (custom setting of the flash).

Use flash exposure compensation if necessary.

In addition to these basic settings use of a flash diffuser can also enhance flash illumination results (when using an diffuser metering has to to be set to TTL instead of ADI).

For critical exposure always use RAW format as it gives the opportunity to adjust exposure to a large degree in post processing. The RAW files from Sony contain enough headroom to enable recover of highlights even from flash images which seem to be overexposed.

Thanks,

Simon

Re: A77 flash overexposure

mikeyp2000 — Wed, 08 Aug 2012 09:28:39 GMT

Interesting feedback, Simon.

Unfortunately, it's just not anything new. I think it's fairly obvious that there is a certain minimum flash output and at certain high ISO settings, that this minimum output is sufficient to overexpose the image.

However, the people who wrote to you seem to have missed the original point. That is, the a77 and A65 seem to need negative flash exposure compensation at any ISO to achieve a "normal" exposure. Apparently the A57 has no such issues. My A55 and A700 had no such issues.

Can you ask them to take two identical photos with identical settings using TTL flash. One photo on an A77 (with F.E.C. set to zero) and one photo with an A57 or A700 or A55 (also with zero F.E.C.) and they will soon see that the A77 is about a stop brighter.

Cheers

A77 flash overexposure

gbloncourt — Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:39:02 GMT

Hello All,

I have been reporting this issue, along with many other, since December 2011. I still don't get it, how come Sony cannot fix it. Simon and Cmosse, thank you for the "WORKAROUNDS", we know them already, some are even on Gary Friedman's book.

WE DON'T NEED WORKAROUNDS, WE NEED THE ISSUE TO BE FIXED ONCE AND FOR ALL.

Let me resume the issue again:

At ISO 640 and above, using P, A, S, or M, either in TTL or ADI, the sony a77 erratically overexposes while using the onboard flash or Sony External flashes.

The last firmware 1.05 didn't fix it ...

Cheers

Message was edited by: gbloncourt

Re: A77 flash overexposure

muhlstein — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:56:38 GMT

I use my Minolta 5600 HS D flash with my A700 camera: no problem at all. I use the same flash with my A77 camera and my pictures are overexposed.
My problem is that the overexposure is not consistent. Sometimes a negative compensation of -0,7 is sufficient and sometimes a compensation of -3 is not!
I would like to know if the problem would disappear, should I buy and use a new HVL-F58AM Sony flash. I would very much appreciate if people using the HVL-F58AM Sony flash and the A77 would bother to write two lines about their experiences. Many thanks in advance.

Micheyp2000's post does not make me feel very optimistic...

Re: A77 flash overexposure

dahanse66 — Fri, 17 Aug 2012 20:27:40 GMT

I use the f58am. There are the same Problems as written here. I Cant believe how Bad the Sony Support of there customers is...

Regards

Daniel

Re: A77 flash overexposure

heho_A77 — Sat, 18 Aug 2012 18:18:20 GMT

Hello,

I'm using the A77(firmware 1.0.5) with the internal flash and the old Minolta 3600HS-D. Same problem, overexposure without flash compensation. Normally a flash compensation of about -1.0 works.

Regards, Heiko

Re: A77 flash overexposure

cmosse — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 09:23:47 GMT

I have just done a test with HVL-F58 and A77 (indoors), subject distance about 1-2.5m, set camera to AUTO mode + fill flash and also P mode with manual ISO settings (100-800). As long as I did not get closer to the subject as the flash range indicated in the display of the flash I did not encounter severe flash overexposure, by contrast most of the exposures were spot on.

So it would be helpful if you could post a sample of flash overexposure you have experienced with this combination.

Re: A77 flash overexposure

muhlstein — Mon, 20 Aug 2012 11:15:29 GMT

Thank you for your answers. Cmosse, I cannot take pictures using the same combination, as I have no HVL-F58AM flash, but the old Minolta 5600 HS D, and my question was precisely to determine whether it would solve my problem if I would buy the new Sony flash; apparently not!

Re: A77 flash overexposure

johnkoh — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:26:48 GMT

I have the same problems as well, and I've been trying to see what I can do about it.

The helpdesk at Sony.de said that they could only evaluate the problem if i send the camera in for servicing - which I'm not sure it would help in any case.

This problem is rather disturbing as I photograph often during live events with 2 cameras (A850, A77). I need to remember that -1Ev on the 850 is a -2Ev on the A77, etc..

While its true that I could work around it by lowering the Ev, lets face it: this is a problem, and given the age of the A77, its not good to have to work-around it.

I've heard of people who do not have the problem - so I'm hoping that someone at Sony spotted and solved the issue at production. Now if i can get the reassurance that by sending my camera in for servicing/recaliberation, the problem can be resolved, I'll send it in immediately..